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Amsterdam's 'Scum Village' Gets First Residents

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BrittanyMichelle6
BrittanyMichelle6  
9/30/2013 10:00:02 PM
User Rank Village Voice
Final point
"And finally, I don't see how you can expect people to learn to coexist respectfully with others if they're living in a converted shipping container away from other people."


This is a great final point. It makes me think of parents teaching their kids how to behave at a restaurant. There's only so much training you can do at home. Then you have to go out in public and practice. These people are not going to come back magically cured of these behaviors. Why not give people access to doctors and social workers without sending them to the outskirts of town?

BrittanyMichelle6
BrittanyMichelle6  
9/30/2013 9:52:36 PM
User Rank Village Voice
Re: Eeek
Excellent analogy comparing these situations to alcoholic recovery, Rich. As with any negative or unwanted behavior, only looking at the symptoms is never going to lead to a long term solution. We must look at the cause of these behaviors. Of course there are no easy answers but this certainly seems to me like a very obviously bad approach.

mejiac
mejiac  
9/28/2013 2:52:07 PM
User Rank Village Voice
Re: Eeek
@DSM419.

Very true. Only after hitting rock bottom, and being at the very precipice those a person truly change.

Being in a different envionrment for 6 months will mostly fuel the angry vs healing hit.

mejiac
mejiac  
9/28/2013 2:50:20 PM
User Rank Village Voice
Re: Eeek
@DSM419,

Agreed. Thought I get the reason of what they're trying to do, the approach, at least in my mind, and agreeing with the points in the article, will do more harm than good.

Sadly these are the types of situations that is more of a gray area.

I friend of mine ended up moving because there was a neighbor that made life impossible for everyone. But there are no specific laws to address these types of situations.

In my friends case, he perfered to move after trying for 7 years, dealing with authorities and what not.

 

DSM419
DSM419  
9/18/2013 2:58:37 PM
User Rank Urban Legend
Re: Eeek
There has to be a better option because 'scum village' really seems shaming, like putting someone on display in the town square. It's all very outdated and unkind.

DSM419
DSM419  
9/18/2013 2:58:05 PM
User Rank Urban Legend
Re: Eeek
The alcoholic example is a smart one Rich. That's so true, unless the person gets to the bottom of their troubles and truly has a lifestyle change, how can we expect anything but for them to go back to their old way.

stotheco
stotheco  
9/18/2013 8:41:10 AM
User Rank Urban Legend
Re: Eeek
You are right, DSM. This is such a sad thing to hear about it. All I can think of is, there has to be a better way. This entire system is not the right way to try and correct the matter.

Toby
Toby  
9/17/2013 9:23:03 AM
User Rank Urban Legend
Re: ASBO Housing and it's issues
@Rich: The other way to look at this might be that the circumstances simply reflect an outcome of how democractic societies view individual rights. There are several nations of global standing who would not see things this way and who deal with such issues quite differently and, decisively.

richheap
richheap  
9/17/2013 8:54:13 AM
User Rank Staff
Re: ASBO Housing and it's issues
And there I was hoping you'd have all the answers, Toby!

Thank you for taking on my impossible conundrum. It is a very difficult question as I think everybody on this thread is finding. We may feel queasy about the "scum village", but many feel equally queasy about putting these people in prison, giving them an ASBO, or doing nothing so they can continue to terrorise their neighbours.

It is easy to say what we don't want to see, but far harder to say what we want to see and what we think will work.

Toby
Toby  
9/17/2013 8:37:49 AM
User Rank Urban Legend
Re: ASBO Housing and it's issues
@Rich: That is a complex question and there seem to be only complex answers now. When I was a younger man I thought that punitive measures were justified as a mechanism for correction. I am a little bit wiser now and anyway the record on recidivism shows this is simply a waste of time.

However, many offenders will never be reducated and probably do not qualify to be members of civil society. This is not a judgement, just an observation based on behaviours. However being outside of society is not an easy path and leaves society prey.

It could be that permanant tagging is the best answer, draconian as it sounds, it can solve many problems by it's presence or provide the data to do so.

But in short, No, I don't have an answer that I consider appropriate. It is a thought provoking matter.

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